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Monday, September 10, 2007
The same old same old shot
There was this irritating conversation going on about espresso on a pro forum where it just became redundant to participate. It got me thinking about how commercial espresso blends are so formulaic and can easily be defined simplistically by one descriptor.
I thought I would categorize them a bit and I came up with six categories:
Earthy
Tobacco/Leather
Chocolate
Caramel
Fermented/Monsooned
Paper Bag
There are many blends where you end up with crossover between each category. Maybe I should have included an honorable mention for Lemony but I felt it was so uncommon, it didn't deserve a category.
Earthy: Think sumatra, spicy, things you would find in a forest: wood, mushrooms, leaves, mold, mildew.
Tobacco/Leather: Tawny, spicy: think about your first triple ristretto. often has crossover with earthy/chocolate.
Chocolate: Think bitter to bittersweet, sometimes milky, rarely though. You can put chocolate in anything with a rolling second crack but many espouse the use of certain beans for this enhanced cocoa. Seriously, cocoa is the roast.
Caramel: Think caramel without the sugar, without the sweet. Most caramel espresso are polished to the point the only character left is a smooth caramel, sometimes burnt sugar but rarely if ever sweet.
Fermented/Monsooned: Fermented: think booberry or strawberry(harrar, sidamo, or other naturals). Monsooned: Mushroom ugh maybe anise at 203.5F(Malabar). Why lump them together? Because both are coffees where the processing is an anomaly.
Paper Bag: Paper bag: think cardboard, burnt rubber, bitter. Yep, you guessed it, Robusta.
The are not a lot of unique espresso out there to be had. Simply put, a lot of them suck, a lot of them are boring, a lot of them taste better in milk than straight shots.
There are intriguing endeavors, but for all the noise coming out of the forum community, you'd think there would be more... right?
Hmm, sweet aromatic espresso. Some fruit, some nuts, no dirt, no mold, no spice, and a lot of character would be nice for a change every now and then even with some cocoa if it was more sweet than bittersweet. An aftertaste that makes your mouth water would be nice instead of a lingering bitterness also :-p ¶ Jaime van Schyndel 10:26 PM
There was this irritating conversation going on about espresso on a pro forum where it just became redundant to participate. It got me thinking about how commercial espresso blends are so formulaic and can easily be defined simplistically by one descriptor.
I thought I would categorize them a bit and I came up with six categories:
Earthy
Tobacco/Leather
Chocolate
Caramel
Fermented/Monsooned
Paper Bag
There are many blends where you end up with crossover between each category. Maybe I should have included an honorable mention for Lemony but I felt it was so uncommon, it didn't deserve a category.
Earthy: Think sumatra, spicy, things you would find in a forest: wood, mushrooms, leaves, mold, mildew.
Tobacco/Leather: Tawny, spicy: think about your first triple ristretto. often has crossover with earthy/chocolate.
Chocolate: Think bitter to bittersweet, sometimes milky, rarely though. You can put chocolate in anything with a rolling second crack but many espouse the use of certain beans for this enhanced cocoa. Seriously, cocoa is the roast.
Caramel: Think caramel without the sugar, without the sweet. Most caramel espresso are polished to the point the only character left is a smooth caramel, sometimes burnt sugar but rarely if ever sweet.
Fermented/Monsooned: Fermented: think booberry or strawberry(harrar, sidamo, or other naturals). Monsooned: Mushroom ugh maybe anise at 203.5F(Malabar). Why lump them together? Because both are coffees where the processing is an anomaly.
Paper Bag: Paper bag: think cardboard, burnt rubber, bitter. Yep, you guessed it, Robusta.
The are not a lot of unique espresso out there to be had. Simply put, a lot of them suck, a lot of them are boring, a lot of them taste better in milk than straight shots.
There are intriguing endeavors, but for all the noise coming out of the forum community, you'd think there would be more... right?
Hmm, sweet aromatic espresso. Some fruit, some nuts, no dirt, no mold, no spice, and a lot of character would be nice for a change every now and then even with some cocoa if it was more sweet than bittersweet. An aftertaste that makes your mouth water would be nice instead of a lingering bitterness also :-p ¶ Jaime van Schyndel 10:26 PM
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Under "tobaccoo/leather" why dont we add 'your first trip to Espresso Vivace' for the west coast readers out there -works just as well.
Additionally under "earthy" we forgot good old fashioned dirt and manure.
Additionally under "earthy" we forgot good old fashioned dirt and manure.
may i please buy your espresso, it must be amazing, and not at all theoretical.
# posted by 
: 18/9/07 4:07 AM
: 18/9/07 4:07 AM
You can buy some Kaffa or ask Simon in Taiwan for some espresso, besides that, the rest is theory because the roasterie isn't open yet.
are you roasting yet? have you done tastes tests (controlled and noted) to "prove" that chocolate notes in espresso are always the roasts?
I don't want to be a dick here, but have you ever had a fantastic shot of espresso. for me to believe you are genuine, you gotta deliver some optimism with your cynicism. Unless maybe you are a robot? which in that case, you need to upgrade your software. :)
I have had really good tobacco/leather shots. And I believe in the USBC rules at least, a good shot consitutes as a perfect balance of sweetness, acidity and bitterness no? Bitterness is part of espresso from what I understand. But maybe that needs to change.
I don't want to be a dick here, but have you ever had a fantastic shot of espresso. for me to believe you are genuine, you gotta deliver some optimism with your cynicism. Unless maybe you are a robot? which in that case, you need to upgrade your software. :)
I have had really good tobacco/leather shots. And I believe in the USBC rules at least, a good shot consitutes as a perfect balance of sweetness, acidity and bitterness no? Bitterness is part of espresso from what I understand. But maybe that needs to change.
We are sample roasting a lot, struggling with drying, -not- baking, and getting the most out of the roast like everyone else. It's very frustrating and more difficult than we ever imagined especialy because of how hard we are on ourselves.
If you like chocolate and leather and that's the end of the road for your espresso journey, I got nothing here worth listening to and no argument to make.
Not all chocolate is roast but if you want chocolate in your espresso... use the roast.
Everything is about perspective and the sum of experiences you have. I have had a few great experiences that have shaped my opinon and created an ideal I now chase. Sadly, websites and forums mean very little in that regard. My only option is to serve it in the cafe. If I fail, then I am a hypocrite, if I succeed, there's nothing left to write on the site except silly adverts about what's being served.
If you like chocolate and leather and that's the end of the road for your espresso journey, I got nothing here worth listening to and no argument to make.
Not all chocolate is roast but if you want chocolate in your espresso... use the roast.
Everything is about perspective and the sum of experiences you have. I have had a few great experiences that have shaped my opinon and created an ideal I now chase. Sadly, websites and forums mean very little in that regard. My only option is to serve it in the cafe. If I fail, then I am a hypocrite, if I succeed, there's nothing left to write on the site except silly adverts about what's being served.
I think a question I would pose to a lot of people out there is: when you look at your tasting notes for north american coffee roasters, and chocolate appears as a descriptor for 95% of them (as it does for me with the exceptions being the ones that are wildly over-fermented), do you really think that all those coffees taste like chocolate?
I have probably had one coffee where I actually thought the bittersweet chocolate was not coming predominately from the roast. It was the India Elk Hill.
Jaime, if we fail, that will not make us hypocrites, it will just make us wrong for the moment. What we aim to do will be done, maybe not this place or this time but it is the only logical progression for this industry, explaining why we proceed with such confidence (and fear for the unknown in some respects).
What we are talking about is being done by a select few, the ranks of which we hope to join in good time.
Gabriel (boscana?), I often wonder who has actually had amazing and revelatory shots of espresso amongst the who's who of coffee in this country, and I think it is probably very few, so that is a fair question. I also agree that bitterness is a necessary part of espresso or any truly great, balanced flavor profile, but I guarantee you that what frequently passes for "sweet" and "hardly bitter" is both overly bitter and hardly sweet. This is simply speaking from my two encounters with truly great espresso in the past three years. Neither of which were pulled by me...both of which did not contain 'chocolate'...
I have probably had one coffee where I actually thought the bittersweet chocolate was not coming predominately from the roast. It was the India Elk Hill.
Jaime, if we fail, that will not make us hypocrites, it will just make us wrong for the moment. What we aim to do will be done, maybe not this place or this time but it is the only logical progression for this industry, explaining why we proceed with such confidence (and fear for the unknown in some respects).
What we are talking about is being done by a select few, the ranks of which we hope to join in good time.
Gabriel (boscana?), I often wonder who has actually had amazing and revelatory shots of espresso amongst the who's who of coffee in this country, and I think it is probably very few, so that is a fair question. I also agree that bitterness is a necessary part of espresso or any truly great, balanced flavor profile, but I guarantee you that what frequently passes for "sweet" and "hardly bitter" is both overly bitter and hardly sweet. This is simply speaking from my two encounters with truly great espresso in the past three years. Neither of which were pulled by me...both of which did not contain 'chocolate'...
Yeah, Boscana! Wadup BEN K!!!!????we miss you at Ritual bro.
jamie-
uh, I never said tobacco/chocolate was the end of the espresso journey for me. If I did, then oops, but I am certain I didn't even allude to that.
the journey is never over for me, if it was I wouldn't be a roaster or a barista. What I was trying to state is that if every shot tasted like what I wanted it to taste like, "perfect" and not "boring" with more notes than caramel, chocolate, leather, tobacco,earthy, fermented, monsooned I would be bored out of my mind. What is amazing to me about espresso is that you never get the same result twice (even with the same blend and roast date), and that different blends are engineered with different taste profiles for a reason and it keeps them exciting. I'm not trying to take away from your argument here, just trying to get you to clarify some points, and if you don't feel like it...well, that's your call, obviously.
I have an opinion too.
ps- let us know when your shop finally opens, we will make you purty trendy tshirts to wear on your grand opening!! just make sure to get 5 Clovers, no one has that yet.
jamie-
uh, I never said tobacco/chocolate was the end of the espresso journey for me. If I did, then oops, but I am certain I didn't even allude to that.
the journey is never over for me, if it was I wouldn't be a roaster or a barista. What I was trying to state is that if every shot tasted like what I wanted it to taste like, "perfect" and not "boring" with more notes than caramel, chocolate, leather, tobacco,earthy, fermented, monsooned I would be bored out of my mind. What is amazing to me about espresso is that you never get the same result twice (even with the same blend and roast date), and that different blends are engineered with different taste profiles for a reason and it keeps them exciting. I'm not trying to take away from your argument here, just trying to get you to clarify some points, and if you don't feel like it...well, that's your call, obviously.
I have an opinion too.
ps- let us know when your shop finally opens, we will make you purty trendy tshirts to wear on your grand opening!! just make sure to get 5 Clovers, no one has that yet.
I sometimes lapse into the I/me/my and then I realize we are a group who have shared a lot of the same experiences and a group going forward together. I don't overlook the support and contribution of my friends in this pursuit of the perfect cup at all. Anyway...
Gabe,
I think you may just have to come out and visit us when we get the roaster installed. There was a time when we progressively followed the CG/HB/Coffeed crowd and really were tracking the big name roasters until one day in a series of events, we got our butts handed to us by this equipment salesman/green buyer/sometime roaster. In a way, it was like taking all this supposedly revolutionary material we had learned in the last few years and then reading it in a book... written two years earlier in excruciating detail above anything else previously written...
The knowledge has been appreciated and yet it left us somewhat bitter as we could not grasp what we had been shown and worse, we could not share it.
Perfect espresso:
Sweet Aromatic Espresso. Complexity and clarity without the rampant acidity or dullness so common.
I want the coffees used to be very expressive and change from season to season in small 2-3 bean blends or as stand alone. Use really good coffees and really do something besides a milk blend espresso to drive a movement of espresso drinkers. Espresso which is only intended as a shot. The 3 dollar shot.
An all Kenya espresso. A CoE based espresso. Gr 1 sorted coffees as espresso. Please god, no tipped Brasils or baked out Sumatra shall appear on my bar.
I will be using Barnett and Meza for two different blends when I open and both I respect enough to believe they will fill out the offerings while we noodle around with the expensive stuff for our rotating offering. We will mix in a local roaster or two, not Terroir but others, and keep the shop as a stage for the coffee. We will get our feet wet and see how things go but the idea is non-traditional and to rethink espresso as no longer the latte art focused strong bitter drink. Even as we get into roasting, we will continue to serve a variety of roasters to keep perspective and entertain the audience.
The key Gabe is aroma: Aroma is so easily destroyed. The more I sample roast, the harder it seems it is to preserve the delicate aromas in a coffee. So many people bake the coffees pretty heartily and still others burn off any hint of aroma beyond the generic coffee smell. If you can preserve the Candied Lime Floral sweetness of the Teramed I tried the other day right into the demitasse, that's perfection in that moment. I know it can be done but it can be infuriating suffering through so many crappy experimental roasts and sampling so many 'top blends' that taste like dirt. Air flow mods, variable drum speed changes, flow meters, soon to be new heating elements, and even a damned data logger with hand on the throttle down to the second adjustments on that damn perforated drum.... It's amazing we keep going at this point after the amount of expensive green we've wronged but we learned a lot along the way. Perforated drum is the key for our approach, but a better designed one than our little beauty piece.
That's a lot longer than I wanted to say but one more thing: Clover... well, we won't have a fetco or be doing french press...
Apologies for incoherent ramblings...
Gabe,
I think you may just have to come out and visit us when we get the roaster installed. There was a time when we progressively followed the CG/HB/Coffeed crowd and really were tracking the big name roasters until one day in a series of events, we got our butts handed to us by this equipment salesman/green buyer/sometime roaster. In a way, it was like taking all this supposedly revolutionary material we had learned in the last few years and then reading it in a book... written two years earlier in excruciating detail above anything else previously written...
The knowledge has been appreciated and yet it left us somewhat bitter as we could not grasp what we had been shown and worse, we could not share it.
Perfect espresso:
Sweet Aromatic Espresso. Complexity and clarity without the rampant acidity or dullness so common.
I want the coffees used to be very expressive and change from season to season in small 2-3 bean blends or as stand alone. Use really good coffees and really do something besides a milk blend espresso to drive a movement of espresso drinkers. Espresso which is only intended as a shot. The 3 dollar shot.
An all Kenya espresso. A CoE based espresso. Gr 1 sorted coffees as espresso. Please god, no tipped Brasils or baked out Sumatra shall appear on my bar.
I will be using Barnett and Meza for two different blends when I open and both I respect enough to believe they will fill out the offerings while we noodle around with the expensive stuff for our rotating offering. We will mix in a local roaster or two, not Terroir but others, and keep the shop as a stage for the coffee. We will get our feet wet and see how things go but the idea is non-traditional and to rethink espresso as no longer the latte art focused strong bitter drink. Even as we get into roasting, we will continue to serve a variety of roasters to keep perspective and entertain the audience.
The key Gabe is aroma: Aroma is so easily destroyed. The more I sample roast, the harder it seems it is to preserve the delicate aromas in a coffee. So many people bake the coffees pretty heartily and still others burn off any hint of aroma beyond the generic coffee smell. If you can preserve the Candied Lime Floral sweetness of the Teramed I tried the other day right into the demitasse, that's perfection in that moment. I know it can be done but it can be infuriating suffering through so many crappy experimental roasts and sampling so many 'top blends' that taste like dirt. Air flow mods, variable drum speed changes, flow meters, soon to be new heating elements, and even a damned data logger with hand on the throttle down to the second adjustments on that damn perforated drum.... It's amazing we keep going at this point after the amount of expensive green we've wronged but we learned a lot along the way. Perforated drum is the key for our approach, but a better designed one than our little beauty piece.
That's a lot longer than I wanted to say but one more thing: Clover... well, we won't have a fetco or be doing french press...
Apologies for incoherent ramblings...
Hey Jamie,
thanks for breaking it down...this is what i want to read more often...total honesty without the frustration. I think your frustration gets in the way of your obvious obsession/love for beautiful coffee. I am on the same boat my friend. One of the most intense experiences I had in years was smelling LAST YEARS Esmeralda, and even the Wild Forest Limmu, of when Yirgs were perfection. unbelievable. the smell seriously haunted me. If you find a way, top capture not only the smell, but the EXPERIENCE of smelling the aroma and the fragrance in a cup i can drink ,then sir you are the devil himself.
I am excited for you to open up shop after so much time, energy and thought has been put into it. I am gonna guess vac pots?!!
I just wanna hear more love man! and less of the "we will do it better, and why is everyone fucking it up and posturing like peacocks?" believe me, I feel you. But do this cuz you love it and cuz you wanna do it your way. fuck the haters!
good luck, and please keep us updated.
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thanks for breaking it down...this is what i want to read more often...total honesty without the frustration. I think your frustration gets in the way of your obvious obsession/love for beautiful coffee. I am on the same boat my friend. One of the most intense experiences I had in years was smelling LAST YEARS Esmeralda, and even the Wild Forest Limmu, of when Yirgs were perfection. unbelievable. the smell seriously haunted me. If you find a way, top capture not only the smell, but the EXPERIENCE of smelling the aroma and the fragrance in a cup i can drink ,then sir you are the devil himself.
I am excited for you to open up shop after so much time, energy and thought has been put into it. I am gonna guess vac pots?!!
I just wanna hear more love man! and less of the "we will do it better, and why is everyone fucking it up and posturing like peacocks?" believe me, I feel you. But do this cuz you love it and cuz you wanna do it your way. fuck the haters!
good luck, and please keep us updated.
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