<< Home || Projects || Events ||
Subscribe ||
||
Wednesday, June 13, 2007
Brian Quinn on the ristretto
"I think ristrettos can be very limiting, and in many instances, are often compensating for poor green quality. Or, put differently, ristrettos often compensate for darker roasts, which are often compensating for poor green quality.
A traditional double - by traditional, I mean ~1.75 ounces of liquid pulled in ~25 seconds - pulled from high quality, lightly roasted beans can offer incredible nuances that make ristrettos taste dull and flat in comparison. You can get higher-toned flavors and aromas of citrus, berries, and flowers that are just crushed by the overwhelming mid-tone flavors in ristretto pulls. You appreciate the sense of balance and range in the coffee as well - those higher notes playing against the more "typical" flavors of chocolate, nuts, and tobaccos in the coffee.
I made a point about green quality, because ristrettos can also smooth out defects or detracting notes in a coffee. You can take a funky, fermented Yirg or an overwhelmingly earthy Sumatran, and knock down those flavors by roasting dark. You can also knock them down by overdosing the basket and tightening the grind. That high note of wild strawberry funk, and that deep note of wood and earth get knocked down - because, in my opinion and experience, the ristretto pull tends to underextract the higher and lower notes in a coffee.
And some coffees, in my opinion - even high quality coffees - taste terrible when pulled as a ristretto. Terroir's Southern Italian (yes, I mean the darker roast) tastes like ash when I push the dose into the 18-21g range. At 16g, you get a nice mellow cup with some great flavors of pecans and hazlenuts, with some chocolate and citrus on the edges. And in no way does that cup lack in flavor or intensity. It's just different.
I'd also say that in my experience, darker roasts and tighter pulls are actually easier to do at home than the more traditional double. Paradoxically, I find ristrettos FAR more tolerant of distribution issues than lighter doses and lighter roasts.
When I first got into higher quality espresso, I used to really like ristrettos. Lately, I find them to be pretty boring. I don't know if you're into wine at all, but for me, ristrettos remind of the whole California cab craze 10-15 years ago. You had these wines coming out with incredible body and extraction - thick, inky, tongue-coating wines. And some of those wines were great, but many were really relying on extraction to make up for lackluster / boring fruit flavors. They turned my head at the time because of the mouthfeel, but as time went by, I started to really appreciate the incredible finesse and clarity that a great Bordeaux or Burgundian wine offers, or a top quality California Pinot Noir. The latter three wines, for me, are the best analogy for what a great traditional double offers.
So, no, I don't think ristrettos should be the default pour at all." Brian on home-barista.com
"I think ristrettos can be very limiting, and in many instances, are often compensating for poor green quality. Or, put differently, ristrettos often compensate for darker roasts, which are often compensating for poor green quality.
A traditional double - by traditional, I mean ~1.75 ounces of liquid pulled in ~25 seconds - pulled from high quality, lightly roasted beans can offer incredible nuances that make ristrettos taste dull and flat in comparison. You can get higher-toned flavors and aromas of citrus, berries, and flowers that are just crushed by the overwhelming mid-tone flavors in ristretto pulls. You appreciate the sense of balance and range in the coffee as well - those higher notes playing against the more "typical" flavors of chocolate, nuts, and tobaccos in the coffee.
I made a point about green quality, because ristrettos can also smooth out defects or detracting notes in a coffee. You can take a funky, fermented Yirg or an overwhelmingly earthy Sumatran, and knock down those flavors by roasting dark. You can also knock them down by overdosing the basket and tightening the grind. That high note of wild strawberry funk, and that deep note of wood and earth get knocked down - because, in my opinion and experience, the ristretto pull tends to underextract the higher and lower notes in a coffee.
And some coffees, in my opinion - even high quality coffees - taste terrible when pulled as a ristretto. Terroir's Southern Italian (yes, I mean the darker roast) tastes like ash when I push the dose into the 18-21g range. At 16g, you get a nice mellow cup with some great flavors of pecans and hazlenuts, with some chocolate and citrus on the edges. And in no way does that cup lack in flavor or intensity. It's just different.
I'd also say that in my experience, darker roasts and tighter pulls are actually easier to do at home than the more traditional double. Paradoxically, I find ristrettos FAR more tolerant of distribution issues than lighter doses and lighter roasts.
When I first got into higher quality espresso, I used to really like ristrettos. Lately, I find them to be pretty boring. I don't know if you're into wine at all, but for me, ristrettos remind of the whole California cab craze 10-15 years ago. You had these wines coming out with incredible body and extraction - thick, inky, tongue-coating wines. And some of those wines were great, but many were really relying on extraction to make up for lackluster / boring fruit flavors. They turned my head at the time because of the mouthfeel, but as time went by, I started to really appreciate the incredible finesse and clarity that a great Bordeaux or Burgundian wine offers, or a top quality California Pinot Noir. The latter three wines, for me, are the best analogy for what a great traditional double offers.
So, no, I don't think ristrettos should be the default pour at all." Brian on home-barista.com
Labels: espresso, musings, ristretto
¶ Jaime van Schyndel 10:33 PM
Comments:
<< Home
Brian, in that thread was able to sum up the last two years of our experiences very eloquently. Jim was a broken record and Teme showed he really fundamentaly understands the differences between each machine.
Hi guys,
I think that I basically said my piece in that thread, so I don't have much more to add. Except maybe this; I think that part of it might be cultural preference as well. In Australia, our 100% espresso market is basically a 95% milk drink market. Accordingly, the prized descriptors are "chocolate," "rich," "bass note," etc. It seems to me that other countries that have more of a culture of drip coffee drunk black, such as the US of A, put more emphasis on acidity and fruity type flavours. Which is just to say that I suspect that the Australian palate will probably prefer ristretto, generally.
Anyhoo, I actually browsed over here to take a look at the Isomac mods. Fortunately, Dave got the thermosyphon balanced pretty nicely before importing my machine, but I'm wondering if replacing the gicleur in the group with a larger diameter one to give a faster pressure ramp-up might not help to make the shots a bit more LM-like. Ben, have you tried this yet?
Cheers,
Luca
I think that I basically said my piece in that thread, so I don't have much more to add. Except maybe this; I think that part of it might be cultural preference as well. In Australia, our 100% espresso market is basically a 95% milk drink market. Accordingly, the prized descriptors are "chocolate," "rich," "bass note," etc. It seems to me that other countries that have more of a culture of drip coffee drunk black, such as the US of A, put more emphasis on acidity and fruity type flavours. Which is just to say that I suspect that the Australian palate will probably prefer ristretto, generally.
Anyhoo, I actually browsed over here to take a look at the Isomac mods. Fortunately, Dave got the thermosyphon balanced pretty nicely before importing my machine, but I'm wondering if replacing the gicleur in the group with a larger diameter one to give a faster pressure ramp-up might not help to make the shots a bit more LM-like. Ben, have you tried this yet?
Cheers,
Luca
Luca,
As far as we can see, "high-toned" espresso is a recent development. Most ppl still prefer the bass heavy types.
After adding the rotary pump, full-on pressure came almost within 2 seconds (if I recall), so the water debit was insanely large. I added a needle valve just before the supply inlet of the machine (most convinient place) and that allowed me to tweak the water debit (variable giculer). I prefer the setting at ~70ml/10sec right now, which gives roughly the same ramp up time (~6 seconds) as with the original vibe pump configuration.
I don't think the giculer mod will work with a vibe pump, but if your machine got a rotary, it is a VERY easy tweak to play with pre-infusion/water debit.
Jaime has A LOT to say on the water debit/pre-infusioin subject. I will ask him if he want to post here or write a post all together...
As far as we can see, "high-toned" espresso is a recent development. Most ppl still prefer the bass heavy types.
After adding the rotary pump, full-on pressure came almost within 2 seconds (if I recall), so the water debit was insanely large. I added a needle valve just before the supply inlet of the machine (most convinient place) and that allowed me to tweak the water debit (variable giculer). I prefer the setting at ~70ml/10sec right now, which gives roughly the same ramp up time (~6 seconds) as with the original vibe pump configuration.
I don't think the giculer mod will work with a vibe pump, but if your machine got a rotary, it is a VERY easy tweak to play with pre-infusion/water debit.
Jaime has A LOT to say on the water debit/pre-infusioin subject. I will ask him if he want to post here or write a post all together...
Hey Ben,
Are you sure that it won't work with a vibe pump?
I'm talking about replacing part number 524467 in this diagram: http://www.coffeeparts.com.au/fae/fae10.html
Marshall had his changed: http://www.coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?p=13353&highlight=#13353
That thread also has some nice commentary from Mr Schecter showing that small gicleur shots start off slow and kick through, whereas big gicleur shots start off faster, but don't ramp up in speed as much.
If it's anything like a LM, a faster rampup will hopefully result in more clarity in the cup, at the expense of less of the ristretto type extraction at the beginning. In any event, if it doesn't help, it won't be much of a drama to switch back.
I never really understood that whole relationship between water debit, pressure and rampup time. A lot of the commercial machines that I have seen have ludicrously high water debits, but they still seem to pull shots at the right pressure and in the right amount of time.
An area for fruitful research!
Cheers,
Luca
Are you sure that it won't work with a vibe pump?
I'm talking about replacing part number 524467 in this diagram: http://www.coffeeparts.com.au/fae/fae10.html
Marshall had his changed: http://www.coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?p=13353&highlight=#13353
That thread also has some nice commentary from Mr Schecter showing that small gicleur shots start off slow and kick through, whereas big gicleur shots start off faster, but don't ramp up in speed as much.
If it's anything like a LM, a faster rampup will hopefully result in more clarity in the cup, at the expense of less of the ristretto type extraction at the beginning. In any event, if it doesn't help, it won't be much of a drama to switch back.
I never really understood that whole relationship between water debit, pressure and rampup time. A lot of the commercial machines that I have seen have ludicrously high water debits, but they still seem to pull shots at the right pressure and in the right amount of time.
An area for fruitful research!
Cheers,
Luca
Luca,
I know the part. The needle valve accomplish more or less the same thing. In fact, that is the setup Mr. Schecter have on his setup. (Needle valve, of course, will only work if your original giculer is large to begin with). It prob work for the vipe pump as well, but I never tried it with one. Since it's so easy to implement and try out, I highly recommand you play with it (less than $30 work of plumbing parts).
Jaime has a really good theory about water debit/pre-infusion/clarity/shot behavoir. It's a lot more comprehensive than what I could explain in the comment section. I guess it's a good time to make him finish that post =)
Post a Comment
I know the part. The needle valve accomplish more or less the same thing. In fact, that is the setup Mr. Schecter have on his setup. (Needle valve, of course, will only work if your original giculer is large to begin with). It prob work for the vipe pump as well, but I never tried it with one. Since it's so easy to implement and try out, I highly recommand you play with it (less than $30 work of plumbing parts).
Jaime has a really good theory about water debit/pre-infusion/clarity/shot behavoir. It's a lot more comprehensive than what I could explain in the comment section. I guess it's a good time to make him finish that post =)
<< Home
