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Saturday, May 05, 2007
Tell me how you really feel about espresso
Ben and I worked on shots of a Kenya AA yesterday. The first time in a long time that we actually got back into espresso. We have an espresso goal that a friend down south will be intrigued to see progress on as I promise we will make it there first!
It has been a particularly long time since we tried pulling a Kenya or anything exotic as a shot and I do miss pulling espresso. I love working the machine and miss it a lot because what I have been tasting lately has not been all too thrilling. Not necessarily bad, just rather boring. To be honest, I am really tired of working with Brasils right now and particularly fatigued with being asked to diagnose roast variances in them! I want to move past it but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate a good Brazil when I see it. It's just that I really want to get back to the days when we were pulling shots of interesting coffees and doing something unique. Yup, coffee shots and what not!
I have been into vac pots lately and it finally gave me an appreciation for brewed coffees other than espresso. Still, the truth is that there is nothing quite like the complexity, viscosity, aroma, and intense sweetness of a beautiful espresso.
So back to this Kenya pulled as espresso. It was clean candied fruit rather than what most would define as the more common sharp acidity you would expect. Some of this is owed to the particular roast style. Like the mysterious shots of Crescendo we are still chasing, it remains an interesting goal to pull a complex but not overpowering shot of a coffee like this. This was exciting and at one point, we were able to even subvert the fruit to get a very unique perfume from this coffee. Strangely pleasant but a bit unexpected in this Kenya. I would post notes but it defeats the purpose of writing today.
Very few people blend exciting coffees in their espresso. Most of the time it's coffees that are rather boring and quite focused on body, earth, and spice. A caramel cocoa espresso... Yawn. I have no problem with that being doused in milk!
It's hard to sit around and listen to people talk about letting the coffee speak for itself and decrying the value of straight shots and less milk when often the coffees used in the espresso are simply put, cheap. The shop may be paying a lot for these coffees but the cost of green coffees used is not quite expensive.
You might say that's being snobbish but I think it's snobbish when you want someone to drink your espresso straight simply because you believe in some hip standard for sizing drinks. If the espresso is good enough, people will naturally move towards smaller drinks and less milk. This much I have seen before. If the espresso is expensive, you sure cannot dump it into a large milk drink. It wouldn't really make sense, would it?
Dare I say it?
To us, third wave doesn't exist. It's largely irrelevant. Talk to me aboutgood great coffees. That's all I want to focus on, a better cup. All the technical stuff and marketing jibe is grand but really it comes down to what you are drinking.
What are you drinking? ¶ Jaime van Schyndel 5:07 PM
Ben and I worked on shots of a Kenya AA yesterday. The first time in a long time that we actually got back into espresso. We have an espresso goal that a friend down south will be intrigued to see progress on as I promise we will make it there first!
It has been a particularly long time since we tried pulling a Kenya or anything exotic as a shot and I do miss pulling espresso. I love working the machine and miss it a lot because what I have been tasting lately has not been all too thrilling. Not necessarily bad, just rather boring. To be honest, I am really tired of working with Brasils right now and particularly fatigued with being asked to diagnose roast variances in them! I want to move past it but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate a good Brazil when I see it. It's just that I really want to get back to the days when we were pulling shots of interesting coffees and doing something unique. Yup, coffee shots and what not!
I have been into vac pots lately and it finally gave me an appreciation for brewed coffees other than espresso. Still, the truth is that there is nothing quite like the complexity, viscosity, aroma, and intense sweetness of a beautiful espresso.
So back to this Kenya pulled as espresso. It was clean candied fruit rather than what most would define as the more common sharp acidity you would expect. Some of this is owed to the particular roast style. Like the mysterious shots of Crescendo we are still chasing, it remains an interesting goal to pull a complex but not overpowering shot of a coffee like this. This was exciting and at one point, we were able to even subvert the fruit to get a very unique perfume from this coffee. Strangely pleasant but a bit unexpected in this Kenya. I would post notes but it defeats the purpose of writing today.
Very few people blend exciting coffees in their espresso. Most of the time it's coffees that are rather boring and quite focused on body, earth, and spice. A caramel cocoa espresso... Yawn. I have no problem with that being doused in milk!
It's hard to sit around and listen to people talk about letting the coffee speak for itself and decrying the value of straight shots and less milk when often the coffees used in the espresso are simply put, cheap. The shop may be paying a lot for these coffees but the cost of green coffees used is not quite expensive.
You might say that's being snobbish but I think it's snobbish when you want someone to drink your espresso straight simply because you believe in some hip standard for sizing drinks. If the espresso is good enough, people will naturally move towards smaller drinks and less milk. This much I have seen before. If the espresso is expensive, you sure cannot dump it into a large milk drink. It wouldn't really make sense, would it?
Dare I say it?
To us, third wave doesn't exist. It's largely irrelevant. Talk to me about
What are you drinking? ¶ Jaime van Schyndel 5:07 PM
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I think what you are talking about here is the crux of my frustration with espresso.
I love brewing great coffees as espresso, and getting such a great range of shots out of them. (Don't get me wrong - I still love espresso and all that goes with it) However, at the back of my mind I am always looking for mistakes I have made in the cup. There is something about espresso that prevents me from letting go the way other brewing methods do.
As for espresso blends and milk - for the WBC I am going to go for something very odd (by conventional standards) for my capp blend. No darker roasts. No big earthy coffees - so definitely nothing Indonesian which seems to be most people's route to cutting through in milk - and something unusual and interesting in cup.
I think the idea of using stellar coffees in espresso blends is interesting, and I like even more the idea of a blend of them that constantly evolves through the year giving the barista and the customer something new as often as possible.
Espresso's history still seems to have a pull over it - it wasn't created to be about quality, it was about speed and perhaps style and I think people's expectations of what espresso "should be" carry with it years of robusta and cheap naturals.
I love brewing great coffees as espresso, and getting such a great range of shots out of them. (Don't get me wrong - I still love espresso and all that goes with it) However, at the back of my mind I am always looking for mistakes I have made in the cup. There is something about espresso that prevents me from letting go the way other brewing methods do.
As for espresso blends and milk - for the WBC I am going to go for something very odd (by conventional standards) for my capp blend. No darker roasts. No big earthy coffees - so definitely nothing Indonesian which seems to be most people's route to cutting through in milk - and something unusual and interesting in cup.
I think the idea of using stellar coffees in espresso blends is interesting, and I like even more the idea of a blend of them that constantly evolves through the year giving the barista and the customer something new as often as possible.
Espresso's history still seems to have a pull over it - it wasn't created to be about quality, it was about speed and perhaps style and I think people's expectations of what espresso "should be" carry with it years of robusta and cheap naturals.
I have to say James, it's a little comforting to see you chime in on this one. I think if there are more people like yourself taking a more critical position on the standard spill of indonesians and brazils (god forbid mexicans), it will really assist the industry in raising the bar. We would do it, but people think we're just crazy.
Additionally, I'll be interested to see what you've come up with for your blends this time around. Good luck.
I have never been fond of Brasils. (not Brazils.. I don't know why English speakers feel like the s must be a z to pronounce it correctly)
Low-altitude coffees with little complexity and not a lot of excitement. I don't care how much care is taken.. it's just hard to get high caliber coffee at low altitude.
I also wouldn't use "indonesians" as a blanket statement. There are some that don't fit the traditional thought. Like PNG Sigri, Blue Batak, etc..
Chocolate and caramel in an espresso frustrate me.
I'm with James in the fact that Espresso keeps bringing you back.. keeps you thinking, keeps you experimenting, theorizing, and guessing.
Most other brew methods don't have the same effect.
As much as I love a great french press. As much as I enjoy just settling down with a melitta pour-over. As convenient as a no-fuss autodrip is. There is always something lacking.
In regards to the "great coffee" thing. That's what it's supposed to be all about. In reality it's not, but it should be. To demonstrate my stance along those lines, and in reaction to my earlier posting about the "third wave", I've changed my tag-line to "keeping the faith".
Low-altitude coffees with little complexity and not a lot of excitement. I don't care how much care is taken.. it's just hard to get high caliber coffee at low altitude.
I also wouldn't use "indonesians" as a blanket statement. There are some that don't fit the traditional thought. Like PNG Sigri, Blue Batak, etc..
Chocolate and caramel in an espresso frustrate me.
I'm with James in the fact that Espresso keeps bringing you back.. keeps you thinking, keeps you experimenting, theorizing, and guessing.
Most other brew methods don't have the same effect.
As much as I love a great french press. As much as I enjoy just settling down with a melitta pour-over. As convenient as a no-fuss autodrip is. There is always something lacking.
In regards to the "great coffee" thing. That's what it's supposed to be all about. In reality it's not, but it should be. To demonstrate my stance along those lines, and in reaction to my earlier posting about the "third wave", I've changed my tag-line to "keeping the faith".
I forgot to add. Don't knock the Mexicans. I've had some good ones that don't fit the implied blanket statement.
We are talking about great not simply good, so you have to pull the bottom of the list up to include only the top percent regardless of region. I don't rate coffees with different standards for each region, great coffees for me are simply one set of standards.
While everyone is fancying El Salvadors and pulped Brazils right now as the new thing, that is not the same as putting Panama Esmerelda and a top Kenya AA in your espresso blend and keeping it expressive and balanced hence mentioning Kaffa. That's what I want to see happen and that's what I would be curious to taste.
I haven't had any 'great' mexican coffees but I get the feeling that's not worth arguing with a bunch of texas coffee people!
I stand with ben on the Indo coffee thing. Blue batak and Lake Tawar, though poular right now are just not very thrilling to cup for us. They are good, only when compared to other coffees from the same region.
While everyone is fancying El Salvadors and pulped Brazils right now as the new thing, that is not the same as putting Panama Esmerelda and a top Kenya AA in your espresso blend and keeping it expressive and balanced hence mentioning Kaffa. That's what I want to see happen and that's what I would be curious to taste.
I haven't had any 'great' mexican coffees but I get the feeling that's not worth arguing with a bunch of texas coffee people!
I stand with ben on the Indo coffee thing. Blue batak and Lake Tawar, though poular right now are just not very thrilling to cup for us. They are good, only when compared to other coffees from the same region.
Well, there is a regional flavor characteristic present in every coffee. While not all coffees will have the exact clarity you're looking for, this is not necessarily a lack of quality.
We might as well grow all coffee in Africa and Central America, and ignore everything else.
You know I'm just as big of an advocate of coffee honesty and cleanliness as you are. On the other hand, does that mean coffees grown elsewhere aren't worth a second look?
Just a thought.
We might as well grow all coffee in Africa and Central America, and ignore everything else.
You know I'm just as big of an advocate of coffee honesty and cleanliness as you are. On the other hand, does that mean coffees grown elsewhere aren't worth a second look?
Just a thought.
"Low-altitude coffees with little complexity and not a lot of excitement. I don't care how much care is taken.. it's just hard to get high caliber coffee at low altitude."
That's how I feel too.
Funny thing is, those coffees just don't interest me but there will always be people who just love them dearly. That's how the market works. There's a right coffee for everyone.
Mr. Blanco,
In regards to the samples sent to you and others. I would reserve my public opinions since it's the same Kenya in your current lineup. Past crop and still rocks. I am sending some other expermintals out tommorrow including this weird forest coffee donated to us which I must mention if I did attempt sorting it that I might actually go blind!
That's how I feel too.
Funny thing is, those coffees just don't interest me but there will always be people who just love them dearly. That's how the market works. There's a right coffee for everyone.
Mr. Blanco,
In regards to the samples sent to you and others. I would reserve my public opinions since it's the same Kenya in your current lineup. Past crop and still rocks. I am sending some other expermintals out tommorrow including this weird forest coffee donated to us which I must mention if I did attempt sorting it that I might actually go blind!
I KNEW IT!! I had a sneaking suspicion that this coffee was mine! Well, actually you could as easily say I knew it because I have cupped this coffee at least once a week for the last four months.
I know you hate, hate, HATE the prospect of that crazy forest coffee being so unsorted and greenish and ridiculous. I hate it too...because it's so unnervingly interesting. If it ever did get run past the sorting monkeys I think it would be worthy of being added to the good/great discussion. Just my .02
I know you hate, hate, HATE the prospect of that crazy forest coffee being so unsorted and greenish and ridiculous. I hate it too...because it's so unnervingly interesting. If it ever did get run past the sorting monkeys I think it would be worthy of being added to the good/great discussion. Just my .02
I think there are some interesting coffees coming out of Brazil, though I think they make up the tiniest percentile. I like the people doing more experimental stuff, new varietals, new processes.
I am very aware that I have a flaw in my cupping when it comes to most Indonesian coffees. Its a bit like I hit that funk and my mouth shuts down and my brain doesn't want to talk about that coffee anymore. The only time I've been grateful for them was in a very mixed cupping coming off the back of three onto a really clean, juicy Kenya Gethambwini that was just at that stage of cooling where it tastes so strongly of fruit and anything but coffee...
I digress.
I have to say I find the drinks produced by means other than espresso more satisfying, though obviously the process isn't as fun. Cupping perhaps being the most satisfying in a way. And I am sure that I am not the only one to have sneekily and greedily lifted a cupping bowl to my lips after the cupping is finished to have a proper mouthful of whatever has really excited me on the table. Guilty pleasures...
I am very aware that I have a flaw in my cupping when it comes to most Indonesian coffees. Its a bit like I hit that funk and my mouth shuts down and my brain doesn't want to talk about that coffee anymore. The only time I've been grateful for them was in a very mixed cupping coming off the back of three onto a really clean, juicy Kenya Gethambwini that was just at that stage of cooling where it tastes so strongly of fruit and anything but coffee...
I digress.
I have to say I find the drinks produced by means other than espresso more satisfying, though obviously the process isn't as fun. Cupping perhaps being the most satisfying in a way. And I am sure that I am not the only one to have sneekily and greedily lifted a cupping bowl to my lips after the cupping is finished to have a proper mouthful of whatever has really excited me on the table. Guilty pleasures...
I wouldn't necessarily call yours a flaw james, because the only thing I'm concerned with in about 95% of the indonesians I have cupped is where to spit it out. Forget explaining why they are bad, just know they're bad and move on. I think I can speak for our entire cupping group when I say this.
While I truly love cupping coffee, and I will gladly admit to grabbing the cupping glass for a big swig when we recently cupped the CoE #1 with the fellows from Victrola (and many many times before that), my most amazing and enjoyable experiences in coffee have definitely been with espresso, even when I was not pulling the shots.
While I truly love cupping coffee, and I will gladly admit to grabbing the cupping glass for a big swig when we recently cupped the CoE #1 with the fellows from Victrola (and many many times before that), my most amazing and enjoyable experiences in coffee have definitely been with espresso, even when I was not pulling the shots.
If I could point to a commercial espresso blend and say, like that, this debate about espresso would be so much easier.
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